BCSPL v Metro Soccer v DIV 1

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by LFC, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    yup. i do think it's a case now that BCSA needs to take over the entire league structure. they've set-up BCSPL (warts and all) and it seems to be settled with scheduling etc. It's time BCSA does the same for MSL down to Div 2 (I would suggest making Div 3-4 completely rec but I guess that's another discussion). streamline everything. BCSPL can keep it's name, but everything else call it Div 1-3 or whatever it would be, and allow for easier movement, organization and standardization.
     
  2. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Although the rules say you basically have to apply to withdraw from MSL - I imagine a team that wins zero or 1 game, or a team that has a terrible GD and then finds it has the same players returning would not have much difficulty proving they should not be in MSL.
     
  3. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    BC Soccer should get feedback from its members - clubs , coach,s , parents, players . There is alot of good posts on this FORUM and hopefully BC SOCCER takes note . please makle changes
     
  4. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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  5. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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  6. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    All the other rosters have 16 -19 players !
     
  7. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Don't know what to tell ya bud. BCSPL teams can bring in permit players from any club in the province. Maybe they've got another 10 kids still trying out so they'll bring them in for games on permits. As a D1 coach last year I loaned players to a BCSPL team well outside of our district for a few games so the kid could tryout.
     
  8. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    I think the only way it might make sense to amalgamate Metro and Division 1 is if the top team at the end of the year is moved up into the SPL league the following season, and the weakest SPL team is likewise relegated.
     
  9. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    IMHO, promotion/relegation at the youth level is an adult ego issue and would benefit no one if implemented. SPL is about developing players, not teams.
     
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  10. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I disagree completely. I hear what you are saying. Typically the team that wins MSL is a very good team. And the team that finished bottom of SPL has a number of significant issues (from what I've seen these teams usually have a massive negative GD and win 1 or 0 games). BUT, if you start putting in pro-rel you will get coaches that focus on results not development. And that's the exact opposite of what this country needs. We need players to be coached and playing without fear of demotion for failing to apply a technique. We need players who can play without fear and thus learn to apply techniques. I understand there are gaps in this theory - there's something to be said for players who develop a dog-eat-dog attitude that pro-rel can bring. I get it. But look at where we are as a nation that has had pro-rel in a wide variety of leagues and provinces across this country. We have to change that attitude.

    Also keep in mind not every MSL player can afford BCSPL. MSL teams that win their league surely have quite a few players good enough for BCSPL (I would guess the average for a team like that would be around 10???) but maybe the coach in their BCSPL district isn't their cup of tea, or maybe they can't afford the fees, or maybe they win MSL but the BCSPL team from their club is very good....it's not black-white. Also maybe the boys who are on the MSL team have other priorities in life and can't handle the training requirements of BCSPL, or maybe they can't play during the same period of time that BCSPL has it's games, etc etc etc

    You can't force kids and parents to enter a certain league.
     
  11. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I do agree that MSL needs to be re-worked. I agree you should probably have MSL more clearly linked with Division 1. But MSL is a "district" league - every district has to have a rep unless they apply not to have one.

    I think the very best thing MSL can do is limit each district to 1-2 entries. 1 entry if player registration is below a certain amount, 2 if player registration is above a certain amount and if a specific district has a very talented gold team or a huge number of registrations can apply to get a 3rd. But, MSL is far too big. The gap between the top-middle-bottom is massive and it harms development and player experiences in it's current incarnation. Having 2 teams in a district isn't a perfect idea, but when I see 2-3 teams in Coquitlam, another team in Maple Ridge, 3-4 teams in Surrey, another 2 teams in Fraser Valley not to mention White Rock, Richmond, all the Vancouver teams etc.....that's far far far too watered down.
     
  12. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    Revision is needed but I would be concerned that pooling Div 2, Dev. 1 and Metro will create a very weak environment for talented players to improve their game. Way too many poor players within such a large group. Agree with the above the the bottom three Metro U15 teams don't really belong there, certainly the bottom one or two, and the top one or two Div 1 teams deserve a chance to play Metro. Similarly, the top U15 boys Metro team from last year - who won the league, Coastal Cup AND Provincial title - deserves to be part of the BCSPL this year, providing of course that this is their ambition. Whenever I mention to parents with kids in other sports that there is no well defined relegation system between Metro and SPL, they are extremely surprised.
     
  13. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    You would essentially just be renaming MSL to Div 1. Then having more Div 1 leagues with a smaller group of teams. Say Div 1A, B, C etc....At u13 you have a tiering process, probably do so again at u14. Then by u15 you basically know if your team should be in A, B, or C. You'll have teams finding themselves in the correct league for the most part. Plus going to a model where they have league play until Christmas, then cup play after Christmas ensures that after Christmas you have like-for-like teams playing in cup (which I think was a brilliant change to our model!). You can have two Div 1A - if you have, say, 16 teams that are fairly competitive you then regionalize them. There will always be winners, losers, and mid-level teams within those leagues. If a team struggles they need to seriously consider being moved to a lower level the next year (and usually teams self-relegate anyway in the Div 1-4 (not so much in MSL - and that's not a good thing)
     
  14. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    Clubs will prob be thinking about applying for Metro spots for next fall . Now would be an ideal time for BC Soccer to make changes to the set up by scrapping the MSL and merging it into the Divisions for next fall.
     
  15. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Not gonna happen. They would make some sort of announcement saying "final year" or something along those lines.

    I think what they should push for is to reduce the number of teams in MSL this year. 12 per league is probably just about right. BUT, it depends on how MSL as a league sees itself - is it a "competitive" league, a "strictly development league" or does it just happen to be a league higher than Division 1. If it's "competitive" they can more easily say to clubs "you guys have struggled for years, you aren't welcome back" and this may mean some districts not having teams in every age group....

    But that won't happen either.

    IMO CSA needs to direct every province to follow a specific model. Once that happens BCSA can step in and bring the league boards together to make it happen. Then the league boards can inform their members. This would all take 1-2 years I assume.

    CSA's direction can be fairly broad. "top tier", "second tier", "third tier", "rec tier." But they would have to define what qualifies as top tier, second tier etc. BCSPL-MSL-Divisions-House would fall into those fairly easily. But they'd now all be under the same national direction, and BCSA would then be better able to direct who can and should be in MSL - BCSPL is set, and I support the current make-up (some franchises struggle but that's a different topic) for sure. I also support the theory behind BCSPL and always have (I don't support specific aspects of it). Essentially BCSA could then streamline MSL all on it's own, and I'd suggest doing so with the same model as BCSPL but with more clubs. Say, maybe restricting it to 12-14 clubs at MSL and having to apply/re-apply at set-periods of time to join etc. This is another level of governance so having the staff/volunteers to do this would potentially be a hurdle.
     
  16. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    BC soccer needs to be more involved and to improve the levels of play , they should definitely try making all play Divisional to allow for up/down movement. Surely nothing wrong with trying this on a trial basis for 1 season
     
  17. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    Metro wars - Newton/Surrey clubs - CCB,SFC, BC TIGERS/PUFC will be fighting for max Metro spots in each boys age group . Tryouts coming up and some clubs will be after 2 spots in each age group . Mostly all BC TIGERS teams including Metro teams currently with SFC will likely go with BC TIGERS for the fall
     
  18. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    PUFC/BC Tigers can't simply create metro teams. They have to apply and be accepted into the league. Surrey already has 3 metro clubs, can't see a 4th being approved but I guess stranger things have happened....
     
  19. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    Same U15 Metro team I referred to above just won their league title again for a second year in a row. And each and every one of these boys are for all intents and purposes is denied a crack at the provincial team while crappy bottom-level U15 SLP teams all get to send two boys each to the provincial tryouts. Excuse me if this comment is a little off topic but it does feed into the same comment make above by several others that Metro teams don't practice as much as SPL ones. This particular MSL team trains 4 days a week with at least one game a week, enters more tournaments that SPL teams do and takes off less time - and has a quality coach who motivates the boys to be their best. Add to this equation a phenomenal technical trainer. I speak from experience in saying that the ridiculous SPL fees do not always guarantee you this quality of coaching or a collective group of boys (or girls) of this calibre.
     
  20. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    Not completely true from my experience and from what I see. SPL is mainly about the winning. Coaches choose players who are for the most part big and strong. Some are also very skilled but others are not. And smaller, skilled players are often cut simply because they are not up to the task physically. I have seen this time and time again.
     

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