BCSPL v Metro Soccer v DIV 1

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by LFC, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    BC Youth Soccer made some changes by replacing the tier 1 leage Metro with BCSPL but doesn,t really seem to have made any huge difference . Talking about boys as not very upto date on girls side.

    BCSPL $2000 - $2500 +
    MSL - Metro Soccer Leage - $650 - $750
    Div 1 - $ 300 - $350

    BCSPL seems to be the favourite of BC Soccer so is prob here to stay despite the costs & 3-4 clubs dominating
    SU,Coastal , CMF & Mountain - these rest are about the same level as the top Div 1 teams.

    Metro - Surrey clubs without BCSPL franchises seem to dominate

    Div 1 - Surrey clubs dominate with upto 5-6 teams in Div 1 in each age group

    It would make sense to scrap Boys Metro and merge it into the Divisional Leage .

    Whats your views on above ???
     
  2. rich

    rich Active Member

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    The addition of BCPSL to the existing pyramid has just muddied the water. Metro should be scrapped, that way you truly have the "elite" playing in BCPSL. Add a couple of franchises if need be, but no more than 2.

    Now some kids don't make PL, but they don't like the coach at Metro (for example), so they go home to play Div 1 with their buddies.

    PL kids are playing Metro, so Metro kids are playing PL to make up the numbers...it's not working the way it's supposed to.

    If you scrapped Metro, then your Div 1 teams will not have borderline Div 2 players on it to make up numbers, Div 2 will not have Div 3 or 4 players making up their numbers...strengthens all levels in terms of placing appropriately skilled kids.

    My $0.02 anyway, for what it's worth. And that's $0.02 CDN, so it's not worth much ;)
     
  3. juninho

    juninho Member

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    Another thing which "muddies the water" as you say it, is the fact that BCPL plays a different schedule than any other league.
     
  4. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    From what I recall from a meeting I had in September with someone connected to the CSA, the BCSPL will be run moreso under the CSA rather than BC Soccer, at least that was what my source says would be ideal moving forward.

    The second thing related to this stuff was that BCSPL teams will no longer be representing the province in the National Championships. I'm not sure if that is to take effect this year or next.

    Under these circumstances, I don't think abolishing the Metro Selects League would be desirable.
     
  5. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    Clubs not awarded BCSPL franchises will never support no Metro, as for their club Metro is all they have to offer to keep their best players.
    Until such a day were egos no longer exist this will be an issue.
    It is very true that teams are being filled with lower level players to max out rosters. I guess we can look at this as either watering down the top levels or as opportunity for lower level players to move up.
    Clubs need to be more honest with themselves about the talent they have and what level they should be playing at. Ideally a club would have enough talent to support BCSPL , form a Metro team or support a joint Metro team such Coastal Delta Selects or Guildford Surrey United , have a Div 1 team , Div 2 , Div 3 team etc.. .But not every club is large enough to fill that void. IF you have a Metro program the absence of a Div 1 or Div 2 team makes any advancement for players difficult, there is no longer a pathway within that club, club loses membership and so on which is why they play under talent up , to fill void. No Metro would certainly help with that. When BCSPL was created we essentially added a level at top, it had to water down the rest, Metro should have been abolished at that time.
    AS of today you have Metro teams win less on the season with goal differentials of up to -39 in 12 -14 games.
    In Div 1 you have half the teams with losing records. Same in Div 2-3.
    This certainly supports the idea that clubs need to be more honest about placements at the very least
    We should be pushing , developing player and programs to improve the level of play at all levels. Playiin gin the second or third tier should still be very good soccer, not water downed soccer. ..
     
  6. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    Its very expensive to have a kid play BCPL , the fees and travelling costs for family members travelling all over BC to watch their kids play are xtra $$$$ on top of the very high fees so a family could be potentially paying out over $3000 for each kid playing in BCPL and many families cannot afford that kind of money.
    Metro is very watered down and should be abolished.
     
  7. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I've thought long and hard about BCSPL. I've been peripherally involved, and have had conversations at length with folks are enmeshed in the league - conversations with those who like BCSPL and those who chose to leave.

    1. BCSPL in theory is excellent and what this province needs. 8 regional teams, with an open boundary. Standards-based league. Excellent in theory.
    2. The cost of BCSPL will always lead to what is noted above - too many kids in the league that aren't good enough
    3. BCSPL playing a different season than the rest of the leagues causes a lot of issues and anxiety for parents worried about making the correct choice - BCSA should have all the leagues div 1-BCSPL playing the same schedule

    No matter what anyone does to improve BCSPL or put in these ridiculous rules that only those in BCSPL can play for the Provincial Team or be selected to Whitecaps so long as the cost is so high this league will never reach it's potential.

    And, as much as the league touts is standards - it doesn't enforce them. Training is low quality all too often. Fitness is too high of a priority. Physique is all too often the first criteria coaches are looking for in selections.

    And finally the communication from BCSPL down to the lower level teams has been abysmal in my experience. Coaches and clubs thumbing their noses at their own league rules that require positive and collaborative communication.

    I could go on and on and on.
     
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  8. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    Even if BCSPL comes under CSA , the problems underneath till need sorting . The top tier then could be called Div 1 instead of Metro
     
  9. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    Its true the clubs without BCSPL franchises use Metro to keep hold of their top players and this is the case in Newton especially where clubs are fighting for Metro spots as its limited to 1 spot or sometimes 2 per club . Replacing Metro with Div 1 would allow more teams to enter and if they struggled they would be replaced by the top Div 2 teams . You can,t do this with the current Metro Leage - you mention teams with -39 etc in Metro and its obvious them teams need moving down.
     
  10. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    BCSPL teams /players make up a tiny percentage of all youth players in BC yet they receive preferential treatment over the majority of all other teams/players:
    BCSPL teams get a full half turf field to train on compared to Divisional teams who may not get even a quarter field.:(
    Players who are good enough even below BCSPL should be considered for Provincial teams & Whitecaps etc.:(
     
  11. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    Metro should scrapped and replaced by Division 1 which would enable unlimited stronger teams to enter into that in each age group and make it easier to move teams up/down. Currently the weaker Metro teams have no option of that.
    Here,s an example from boys U15 Div 1 & U15 Metro :
    Div 1 - top 6 teams would easily compete in Metro Tournament Standings
    Metro - bottom 6 and definitely the bottom 3 need moving down Tournament Standings
     
  12. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    In the metro div there'd be no reason to drop the team in 7th. In the div 1 the team in 6th should defo not be moved up. But the team in 7th looks very solid.
     
  13. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I'm not so sure its that cut and dry. I have seen many teams who have dominating records with +40 gf get moved up and then they cant win a game. These decisions are always a tough call.
     
  14. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I think D5 groups have way too many teams. Do we need 19 teams in Div 1?

    The competition would be better as it was a few years ago when we had Bronze 1/2, Silver 1/2, Gold 1/2. We dont need top Div 1 teams dominating, Barely Div 1 teams. I honestly think it does nothing to benefit the players and their development.
     
  15. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    can't understand these huge divisions. why not have divisions of 6-8 teams, play everyone twice in regular season. why have 15-20 team divisions and you barely play half the teams.
     
  16. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I agree. Standings become more a "luck of the draw" situation sometimes.
     
  17. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    I am going to go a bit outside the box. In hockey there is two streams rep and house. yes there is still politics but lets put that aside.
    Soccer through LTPD has laid out a pathway of two streams but our leagues are not well aligned, My thought is creating two clearly identified streams
    Elite/Rep and House/ Rec

    U13-U18 - Elite/Rep
    National Team
    Professional Residency/academies
    Provincial Team
    A1 - Currently BCSPL
    A2- Currently Metro
    A3 - Currently Div 1
    here the training quality should be top notch, paid coaching

    U13-U18 House/ Rec
    H1 - Currently Div 2
    H2 - Currently Div 3
    H3 - Currently Div 4a
    H4 - Currently Div 4b

    With this structure there is better opportunity for players and teams to move up and down the streams, the top two divisions in house would still be very good soccer.

    For U6-U9 - should be house leagues only, Club academies can start identifying top talents, I personally don't think there should be rep teams in this age group.

    U10-U12
    Rep soccer is introduced
    A1 - the top one or two teams for each club, ( there is currently too many teams in this age group playing div 1, just look at U11 18 clubs but 28 teams, U12 has 24 teams from 16 clubs, but i think it started with 30 plus teams )
    A2 - The number 2 and maybe 3 team for each club - Currently Div 2 and quality isn't there as too many teams playing div1 that should be in div 2 ( currently 30 teams from 20 clubs playing div 2)
    A3 - - The number 3 and maybe 4 team from each club. Currently div 3 but again outside 3 or4 teams the quality isn't there as teams play div 2 that should be div 3
    Again this stream should have high quality coaching , this is a bit tough in that a lot of the players in the A2 and A3 teams will fall out of the rep stream in U13. 2-4 on average from A1 teams make A1 (BCSPL)in U13 , another 6-8 A1 players from each team make A2 (Metro)teams , 2-4 A1 players go on to play A3 as U13, maybe 1-4 A2 players make a A2 ream and 6-8 make A3 rest go to H1 and 1-4 A3 player from each team will make a U13 rep team rest go on to play H1 or H2.

    and house soccer
    H1
    H2
    H3
    H4

    The goal here is to improve the quality at all levels and attempt to produce the best players possible.... Also remember the highest drop out rate is U13-U15 and one reason is it gets to competitive for some, with this scheme teams would be better placed and a good player who just doesn't want the seriousness could stay in the game and find good soccer at less competitive levels. This would come down from BC soccer and create consistency among the districts as well, currently they all operate a little different ... For the amount of player playing soccer in BC we should be way better represented on the national team, we currently are not, change/ improvement is needed.
     
  18. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    TKBC - them 2 Boys U15 groups were just an example of why teams need to be moved up down which can,t be done with Metro now . Some people will knit pick , but them bottom 3 teams in that U15 Metro have won 1 game each all season.There are many other examples in the various Boys leages .Scrapping Metro and replacing with Divisions would enable easier movement and players/teams would be playing at their level .
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  19. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    4 -the-kids . great post with alot of great suggestions to improve youth soccer in BC .
    BCSPL has a different playing season Feb to June which should be implemented for all youth select levels .
    Admin mentioned in an earlier post about CSA possibly taking over the BCSPL and hopefully that goes ahead so that the other 95% kids/youth players get more attention from BC Soccer.
    Div 1 should be the top tier with Div 2,3 ,4 & 5 etc - teams would be placed at their level and if they are not they can be easily moved up /down which is not possible with Metro .
     
  20. Krutov

    Krutov Member

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    I agree that the Metro league needs scrapped. I had a look at the Distric5 rules about players moving down from a Metro team. Here is the part on this from the district 5 guide

    Commitment to Metro Select League

    The member Districts of the 5 District League annually re-affirm their individual District’s

    commitment to the Metro Select League. To this end, no District shall knowingly permit nonparticipation

    in the Metro Select League for the reason of gaining advantage in 5 District League

    play. In each division where a member District does not put forward a MSL team, that District

    must state its reason in writing and be granted explicit permission by the 5 District League

    Board to enter a League team(s) in a division of play.


    Teams wishing to register more than three players who played in the MSL League in the

    previous season will require specific permission of the League. District approval must be

    obtained first and then a written request must be submitted by the District to the League before

    the June meeting. Written request must include the division, team name(s) and standings, the

    coaches’ name, how many returning players from the previous season and the rationale for

    adding more ex-MSL players. Teams found not to have received permission to register more

    than three (3) former MSL


    In the case of the 3 teams that have been discussed about moving down(relegated) it appears to be quite a hurdle. Is anyone on the board here that has knowledge of a team moving back to Div1 from Metro? How long does this process take? How are the Metro players supposed to know which evaluations to attend. The timelines above do not work for the kids involved as the decisions are way too late as evaluations have already taken place at most if not all clubs and all levels.

    What happens if there are ten kids from 1 community that are moving down to Div1 and the "rationale" is not accepted. Are these players then split up to various Gold/Silver/Bronze teams?

    I do not have a resolution to this but if there was no separate Metro league this would not be a hurdle at all. Div1 teams with a terrible record would simply be placed in Div2 the following season. Easy Peasy.

    I would also add that IMO the top 3 teams from U15 Metro are as good as the bottom 3 in the BCSPL. The system setout is not really working as hoped.
     
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