BCSPL v Metro Soccer v DIV 1

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by LFC, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. juninho

    juninho Member

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  2. Krutov

    Krutov Member

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    I get it, we would all love Canada to be competitive again but if we are honest with ourselves it is a long shot at best to get up to the 60th rank nation.

    My point was that we have started to focus all our energies on trying to do just that at the expense of the majority of families and kids. To be honest as each year moves along with these Premier leagues across the country I am starting to see parallels with the much respected hockey community. This whole my kid/team is better than yours is what we all loved about youth soccer and hated about youth hockey.
     
  3. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    This is the reason we took our kids out of baseball and one of the reasons we embraced soccer. In the last 6 years that focus has changed a lot. Clubs profess lptd guidlines while u8 players sit on the bench? For what end?
     
  4. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Certainly fun should always be the top priority. But, to make it just about "play for fun" in the competitive end of our youth soccer programs (Div 1 plus) we will never progress as a football nation. The Whitecaps will never improve if the feeder clubs from u6+ are not providing appropriate and necessary competitive training environments with respect to the age of the children (obviously 5 year olds all about fun, 11 year olds still about fun but also about learning proper training habits so on and so forth)
     
  5. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Have you seen our youth men and women play? They compete quite nicely with the top 60 nations. With the resources available in this country we should, quite frankly, all be embarrassed with our world football standing. Whitecaps, TFC, FCE, and MTL are all developing quality young players. After a few seasons of the youth-to-USL-to-MLS program being in place you will start to see more competitive senior national teams. Already we've got Larin winning MLS rookie of the year, for example - he scored 14 goals this year putting him t-5 in MLS on a bad Orlando team.
     
  6. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    By creating a rec stream and a competitive stream nationwide, you will see everyone having a clear path to enter into the program that is right for them. For example, plenty of kids get put on a gold or MSL team that really aren't that interested in competitive soccer, but they don't really have much option. If you had two separate streams they wouldn't attend the trials for a competitive team and thus enter into the stream that suits them. At the same time, less talented kids, with more desire would find their way into a competitive stream and I believe everyone wins in that scenario.

    I believe we should have BCSPL, OntarioSPL etc etc etc nationwide (change the name, whatever), with 3 tiers each depending on the province (ie, Nova Scotia probably just 1 tier, but BC easily 3). Those will feed directly into the USL, NASL, MLS academies, and soon to be Canadian Premier League.

    Those not interested in that stream enter rec soccer and "play for fun." I realize right now kids could say "no, I don't want to play MSL, put me on the silver team" but it's a bit tougher to do when you show-up at a tryout for a competitive team because that's the only way to get allocated onto a team.
     
  7. Krutov

    Krutov Member

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    TKBC I agree that the competitive end should be serious but who pays the price? What I am getting at is the lower end is getting smacked in the chase for national competitiveness. Our model as it is headed and has gone is taking away from the lower 98% of the players from where I stand on the sidelines.

    I ask you as you are very much into the local and national soccer scene. What would be success in your eyes and then what is the realistic goal as a nation? Top 60? Top 40?

    In your posts you use the "IF" a lot. If we had two stream as an example. My point is that we don't and I have seen exactly what you are talking about with kids in the selection process.

    I was involved for 3 years with a Metro team that was not a Metro team at all. I made my case after years one and two to drop them down but No was the answer. The boys knew they were a Div 1 team and is where they should have been. This year a TD has taken on that team and have 2 wins in 11 games. These kids are not getting to enjoy the game as they should. This is the system that we are in.

    I want all kids to enjoys their youth soccer experience. Most have no desire to play pro or play year round. It is the adults that are making the decisions that is the issue.
     
  8. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Re: top 60: Well Canada has been in the top 60 before, so I believe a realistic goal is top 40 as our peak. Once we are established there....you never know.

    I disagree with you re": the "lower 98%". You are putting too much blame on a system, and not enough on the players and parents. They do have minds for themselves and no one is forcing them to join a team. But, I think that would be made easier if you had two totally distinct streams.
     
  9. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I have heard rumours of a BCSPL 2 in the works. If that then goes to a BCSPL 3 as well then there's your distinction between competitive and rec because that would be the identified competitive pathway to Provincial Team, Whitecaps etc.
     
  10. juninho

    juninho Member

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    BCSPL2 = 2000$ a year for Metro level?
     
  11. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    No clue whatsoever. Only a rumour. I wouldn't assume anything at this point.
     
  12. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    I think by creating two clear streams we can ensure there is development and resources for all. The defined streams would start at U13 so development up to that point would still be up to the partner clubs .
    I personally would like to see the the competitive streams be unique clubs with partner community clubs ( see mountain FC, Fusion , Fraser Valley as examples). All community clubs should be chartered to have relationships/ partnership with the competitive stream clubs. All U5-U12 would be at community clubs with a development stream that starts at U8, by U10 through U12 the development teams should be working with the partner competitive clubs via some sort of intake academy.

    U13 -U18 competitive stream should include up to 3-4 tiers depending on population and numbers playing, I would like to see the provincial teams and pro academy teams to not start until U15 or U16 - let the kids develop first and then by U15-16 the truly committed should be more clear , at this age players make the choice to further their soccer career, think CHL in hockey. Their will always be younger kids that should play up as their ability or physical attributes dictate and this is ok, I know of a 2004 player playing on a 2002 BCSPL team, but this should be the exception not the rule.
    ..
    Resources absolutely need to be spread to all including the no development teams, currently these teams are ignored and always have been. The level of play needs to be better at all levels players need to properly developed at every level. There should be U8-U12 house players challenging for spots on the development teams at all times.
    As for U13-U18 recreational , the goal should still be continuous development and community clubs should be mandated to offer these programs, ( I would suggest by U15-U16 players in the recreational stream have a good idea of their future plans and whether that includes soccer, as such offering extra programming for recreational player beyond this age maybe pointless)
    The recreational stream will still offer excellent and competitive soccer, just with a lower commitment level for players with other priorities or interests...
     
  13. Soccer_dude

    Soccer_dude Member

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    What's the rationale behind keeping this team at the msl level if they continue to not have success year after year?
     
  14. Krutov

    Krutov Member

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    To keep the spot it what I believe. If you relinquish your spot another club will grab it and you will never get it back. I guess the belief was that new players would try out that were better but that did not happen. In the age group I was in there were 3 clubs that were scrapping it out for last place each year and it is happening again this year. If the clubs and MSL really cared these 3 clubs would have lost their spot and given to a more deserving club if they could prove they would be any better.
     
  15. Soccer_dude

    Soccer_dude Member

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    Yeah logic would show that you are right. That's too bad. If it's an ongoing issue with the same bottom three teams, they should be dropped down the following year. You would think the league would want to keep a healthy balance of competition.

    In this situation though, what benefit are the players getting by being hammered every weekend? I guess it's a club pride thing to not lose that spot, but I doubt the kids are developing at this point. If anything, players might quit because of this.
     
  16. Total -Base

    Total -Base Member

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    Soccer-Dude some coaches just do not see the net result playing in MSL and getting beat by five goals each game. Kids will do that at U13 and 14 at U15 boys will quit. Soccer in lower Vancouver area has gone nuts. Reason HPL,MSL is trying to grab or hold kids. At the costs today it is just hog wash. HPL cost is close to five grand with tournaments and extra cost for coaches,product is no better than MSl. Club soccer is nothing more than Bronze program. Development is going backwards as you can see how many kids make it to Caps Toronto and Montreal. In my opinion soccer has to go back to club soccer. Scrap Provincial Program. Scrap BC Soccer Alberta soccer and on. Make it Canadian Soccer give power to top people. Let them pick out best kids and develop them to no cost to parents. Use the money each kid pays and start two three more NASL clubs or a Div three all Canadian soccer with two zones east and west, six team's each. Till they do that all you will do is pay local dads to coach. No kid will have a chance. Ten Provinces tell guys on top what to do. Soccer is going no where soon the way it is. Best result will be if you take fifteen boys and go to US soccer Tournaments kids will develop and have a chance to a MCAA div one schools.
    Rest is just waist of time and money, reason is parents with money put their kids in HPL and MSL yet for most 80% of kids are not athletic enough to play the game at high pace.
    At the end of it all kids end-up in Richmond,Burnaby, North Van and Vancouver beer Leagues. At about $35 000.00 to parents from U13 till U 18.
    Forget HPL and MSL play gold soccer and have fun. Beer League will be there for ever. Cheers hope this snow goes away soon.
    I see Caps took two defenders in today's Superdraft.
    Take a look on the list of players in this years draft you might find thee Canadian Kids. If you can not beat them one must be smart a join the.
     
  17. Soccer_dude

    Soccer_dude Member

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    Yeah, you're right. This country is still a long ways a way from developing elite talent. I don't see it happening anytime soon. Hpl & metro coaches are getting additional income from kids who quit after u 18 anyway.

    You make a lot of valid points, we won't go no where until there is a clear path after youth soccer. Definitely having our own domestic league would help. Majority of graduates from BCPL don't go no where anyway & if they do, it's at some local college or university that could be achieved by playing gold.Too many parents are brainwashed thinking there kids going to go somewhere. If they were really that good, they'd be in Europe already.
     
  18. Soccer_dude

    Soccer_dude Member

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    This will always be a hockey country. Just look at the commercials promoting hockey everyday. Look how much the world juniors get recognition. Where is that same promotion. For let's say U 18 - U20 team Canada soccer ??

    But you know, the main thing is, how many young players actually have passion for the game here? Not too many. Go to England, Spain, etc they live & breathe soccer. We don't here. Sad but true.
     
  19. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    Great post Base , alot of valid points.
     
  20. LFC

    LFC Active Member

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    Soccer dude , i grew up as one of those kids who lived & breathed Football and still do. We lived 2 blocks from West Broms ground The Hawthorns although i have supported Liverpool since 5 yrs old. West Brom used to give the local elementary schools free tickets for cup games during midweek and i watched so many games there. During school holidays we used to watch the team training and get autographs.The players would come to our school around Christmas time and for sports days - it was like dreamland . Here 90% of the kids whether they are BCSPL , MSL or Divisional have no passion for the game & majority love Ice Hockey more.
     

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