Why No Metro Players on BC Provincial Teams?

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by Metro Dad, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I have provincial B but none of the new youth-specific courses (whatever they are called). Does that mean I am unqualified for certain ages?
     
  2. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    That is a good question , one i just assumed to be if you have a higher level its ok, but I am not totally sure, for U13 and up you would definitely be ok, for up to U12 its not clear if you must have that age group or if higher qualifications are ok...
    Note as of June 2016 you need to have or be working towards your National B to be head coach of BCSPL, assistant coaches don't need as high I believe.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    I have asked BC soccer and await their response.
     
  4. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    "working towards" could mean anything....but it's my understanding most of the BCSPL coaches have that license or are enrolled in the provincial courses to work their way up to that level already. I don't think it's a big issue. As I've noted earlier getting licenses means nothing without oversight after it's achieved.
     
  5. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    I believe you have 6 months so work towards mean finished in 6 months, of course that is dependent on course offerings.

    Heard back form BC Soccer:

    A B Pre or higher will override the need to take the community course. (So no, you wouldn’t have to take it).

    Agree there needs to be ongoing oversight/ evaluation of coaches, should probably mandate maintenance courses as well, like any professional accreditation requires.
     
  6. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Well that's good to not HAVE to take a course. but, if I have to get involved with younger kids for sure I'd take it. Can always pick-up something new.
     
  7. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    Honestly, having take the courses I have to say I have learned more watching other coaches run practices, academies, youtube, etc than I ever did there.

    I think its more a liability process than anything else.
     
  8. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    The best education is working with other coaches, more experienced coaches, your TD's, and then doing the sessions yourself....definitely. But, if attending the courses gives you one nugget of info/insight then it's a good use of a half-day or full day or whatever they are.
     
  9. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I did learn that I was in no kind of shape to be standing around for 2 full 8hr days in the cold wind, participating in drills. Lol
     
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  10. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    You are probably right - in a soccer nation good players will be identified and eventually find their way up the ranks, maybe even to the top of the pile.
     
  11. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    These "soccer nations" also have an open league (senior) system the players can strive for and clubs that are actively seeking for "the next" player in every crack.
     
  12. soccer mom

    soccer mom Member

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    at the end of the day though most coaches are selfish and want the best players. Why would that be different on provincial teams. I cant see a coach saying he would prefer to take a lesser HPL player over a metro player just because of where he plays. Unless of course they are mandated by some governing body to take only HPL players. If thats the case thats pure stupid.
     
  13. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    At the end of the day we have a system in place, there is a player pathway. One can choose to agree or disagree with the system ( that is a different discussion) , one can choose to play by the rules or not. To make a choice to not follow the pathway and then complain about being overlooked is crying over spilled milk. Its not the fault of the system but the fault of those of make a choice to not follow it.... And I understand there are many reasons why one might make the choice to not follow the system, that still doesn't change the fact the they made that choice and now must live with any consequence of doing so.
    There is a difference of a player playing in Metro who wasn't identified by a HPL franchise and now showing some promise being overlooked and a player who was identified and declined the opportunity to play Metro being overlooked. It might seem like politics and it probably is but as the saying goes " when in Rome, do as the Roman's do" , or as a manager once said to me " you don't have to like it but you still have to do it"
     
  14. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    @4_the_kids must be on the BCSPL board of directors (I say in jest)

    On one hand you acknowledge there are legitimate reasons someone isn't in BCSPL, then on the other you say it isn't the systems fault. It, in fact, is the systems fault if kids of sufficient level to be on a provincial team is not being picked because a kid is not in BCSPL regardless of the reason said kid is not in the BCSPL. It certainly isn't the child's fault if they have a legitimate reason not to be in BCSPL and then the PTP says "can't pick you because you aren't in BCSPL." I know of one kid that has walked into the first XI of a HPL team (on loan, mind you), got a very high rating when he tried-out for the Whitecaps, and all the while simply play Single A high school soccer, some very low division senior men's soccer, and "lowly" youth division 1. This kid had exceptionally good reasons why he wasn't play BCSPL. I suspect, but can't prove (because I haven't watched his peers at BCSPL play), he's good enough for PTP. Did he ever tryout for PTP? Nope, for the same reason he never bothered with BCSPL (until very very recently). Kids can be very talented, and have very legitimate reasons not to be in BCSPL - but if they aren't in BCSPL the PTP isn't even looking at you. That is the systems fault. TD's can recommend kids for a trial with PTP but if memory serves the first "test" before that is that the kid has to go to BCSPL trials (I understand the thinking there, but surely most TD's in this province know what a PTP-level player looks like and would know why the player they are recommending for an assessment by PTP hasn't gone to BCSPL in the first place).

    In Canada we should be turning over every single stone to find players. I was playing silver when growing-up in a small community. I was found, and invited to play on the eventual top youth tier provincial level champions, and started every game. I was found. The system looked for me. This was in BC. Why did this change and who thought it was a good idea to change!?
     
  15. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    I also said there is a difference between an unidentified player and one turning the system down. This happens in every sport. To give the system the finger and then complain about being overlooked is pointless in my opinion.
    scouting is another issue.
    What I am tired of is listening to people complain about a broken system and in the same breath aren't playing by its rules.
    And yet still if a player is good enough I believe he will be found, maybe just maybe the player was overlooked because he doesn't meet the grade. Not once has that possibly been discussed on this page
     
  16. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    But, my example was a player who both turned down the top league AND was unidentified.

    The system is broken. If people just "play by the rules" it will never be fixed. This topic, quite rightly, has been about BC because that's what we know. But, just look at our international performances and how our countries professional players perform - the system is broke and must be fixed. Requiring kids to play in certain elite leagues (that they can't afford, can't get to, or have some other reason why they can't participate) to be identified isn't the right fix.

    The discussion is about players who are good enough and are being overlooked or not given a chance, as a result of the system they are required to play within.

    Players being overlooked because they aren't good enough is completely beside the point of the discussion.

    How many MSL players are good enough for PTP? I suspect very few. But that they basically won't even get a look for PTP is not right, regardless of how few it is.

    I am aware of plenty of players who have been selected to BCSPL (or been clearly good enough and have not even bothered to tryout), and have chosen MSL or Div 1 instead. There's clearly a problem with the BCSPL model. I will suggest it isn't all BCSPL's fault - without a senior national men's league to aspire to putting out all that time and money to play BCSPL simply doesn't appear worthwhile to many. Keep in mind Whitecaps are signing a very small minority of players from BC to their academy, even less are making the national team/pro soccer. So why spend all that time/money to get a very small CIS soccer scholarship, when you can focus on school, play local, and still attend college and possibly play college soccer (how many BCSPL kids actually go on to play college soccer, or continue to play anywhere at all after age 20-21?).

    If there was a senior men's Canadian league, I think you'll see an increased interest in BCSPL because the BC and Alberta teams would be scouting BCSPL actively you can be sure.

    ...

    I agree with BCSPL. I agree with MSL being tier 2 and I agree with the pathway that encourages the best to be with the best (coaches and players) and then trickle down from there. What I don't agree with is the cost of tier 1, I don't agree with then being charged yet another cost to be on the PTP, and I don't agree with essentially (and in practice) requiring players to be in tier 1 to be considered for PTP. Travel for practices/games for tier 1 is unavoidable. We live in a massive province. Not everyone will have an elite team nearby.

    I have previously noted my recommendations for an effective, player/club/coach-centred, turn-every-stone model for PTP. Hint: get rid of centralized PTP.
     
  17. TulioMaravilha

    TulioMaravilha New Member

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    Food for thought:
    • Should we take seriously an invitation with a (higher) price tag attached that the parents may not afford or are not willing to bear?
    • Does a 14- year old have any say in the matter, since he/she has to rely on parents for transportation and payment of fees?
    • Isn't it possible that playing in a team close to home, regardless of the level, may be the only viable option for many kids whose parents work full-time?
    IMHO, BCSA should invite the best players, period, and not push any league's agenda.
     
  18. 4_the_kids

    4_the_kids Active Member

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    We can go back and forth all day on this..
    Bottom line there should be open identification camps to give all a chance to tryout not just closed invitational camps that rely on BCSPL coaches for their recommendations. I get that BC soccer ideally wants its best player in one league it makes scouting much easier and affordable... but it is closed minded as many kids could be overlooked.
     
  19. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    There are a million reasons kids can't join a certain league/team. Yes, should invite the best. Centralizing the best is a good idea, and showing a clear pathway is a good idea. But for those that can't participate in the top tier....
     
  20. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Absolutely. But this goes back, also, to my "regional PTP model" idea. Get rid of this centralized PTP nonsense. Have 10-12 PTP's spread around the province. You'll then have no excuse to be "discovered" regardless of the level of play and BC can very safely say they've seen everyone regardless of level of play. Which is exactly how it should be - find the best regardless of league. (note: my regional PTP model does include a centralized PTP but only for prep for the national comps). Regional PTP would allow for regular training, coach ed, and player identification.
     

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