Why No Metro Players on BC Provincial Teams?

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by Metro Dad, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    BC Soccer is shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring the small but quality pool of talent playing at the youth Metro level. Why do they refuse to consider for provincial teams all and any players playing at this level? Case in point - my son's youth Metro team team has played a particular SPL team twice in the last 8 months in exhibition games and beat them decisively both times. Yet, this same SPL team has three players on the provincial team while none of the players on my son's team are invited to the provincial tryouts. Sure, I've heard the excuse that if a player wants to be considered for the provincial team, then play SPL. However, there are many reasons why a player may want to player Metro instead, including the quality of the coaching, location, and the ludicrous fees charged for SPL. My son gets considerably better coaching playing Metro for his particular team and attending additional clinics than he did when he played SPL and is happy to stay where he is. But why should he or any other quality player be ignored for a provincial tryout?
     
  2. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    Do you know if the provincial teams have any open try-outs or identification camps?

    It seems a bit worrisome to me if only BCSPL players are eligible for these teams... that pretty much rules out any player who does not have the financial means to participate in SPL, no?
     
  3. Coach Ciaran

    Coach Ciaran New Member

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    I suggest you check out the information available on the BC Soccer website under "Player" -> "High Performance" -> BC Soccer High Performance Program...HERE. This process has been in place since at least early 2014 if not longer and the information has been clearly posted on their website in that same time.

    Players may be recommended to BC Soccer Development Staff by a member club technical director or team head coach at any time. Player Recommendations must be submitted on the following Player Recommendation Form which can be downloaded by clicking on the following link:

    Link: Player Recommendation Form

    Following the receipt of a player recommendation form players may be scouted by BC Soccer Development Staff and/or an EA Sports BC Soccer Premier League club technical staff member or designated trained scout/coach to gain further insight on this player’s potential for further evaluation, recommendation and selection.

    It is recommended that those players who aspire to enter the high performance stream of play should first contact a regional based EA Sports BC Soccer Premier League member club to gain information on potential assessment and their age specific player evaluation schedule. See below for member club contact for further information on the EA Sports BCSPL please click on the following

    link: EA Sports BC Soccer Premier League

    Perhaps a better question to ask is why a head coach or technical director is not connecting talented players with the identification pathway?
     
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  4. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    It's got nothing to do with TD's "not connecting" them. You are completely out of touch if you think every player "good enough" for BCSPL can actually afford it or has the ability to get to the training and games. Not to mention just because someone is a BCSPL coach doesn't make them the best coach to develop kids.
     
  5. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    exactly.

    Not just finances - some kids live more than an hour from the nearest BCSPL team. So they choose to play on another team and focus on school and friendships, but because of that have no chance at all in this province.

    Then again, let's say a kid is good enough for BCSPL. That's minimum $2500 a year. Say they start at u13. That's $10k+ . Just for the gamble that they will get a CIS scholarship (cuz don't kid yourself - only an extremely small percentage of BCSPL kids are getting NCAA shols - the NCAA schols go to WFC, TFC, Impact) worth about $1-2k per year, a parking spot and early reg. Keeping in mind plenty of MSL and Div 1 kids make college teams. Is spending that much money/time worth it for the very very slim shot at a scholarship and look at by the Whitecaps? Don't forget the Whitecaps scout and sign kids nationwide (and some Americans). IMO, do whatever it takes to reduce fees. You then, and only then, will get the best kids together - not considering those with low income that can't afford any sports teams. (but that's a diff't problem).

    I agree with BCSPL - just not how it's run currently.
     
  6. Coach Ciaran

    Coach Ciaran New Member

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    TKBC - if you read the final line in my post again I am speaking specifically to the identification pathway for the BCSA HPP. I am not speaking about pushing players into BCSPL programs. I am all to well aware of the reasons why an individual who should be playing BCSPL may choose not to play BCSPL. I was quite deliberate with my wording - there is an "identification" pathway in place that allows anyone the opportunity to be considered for BCSA HP programs regardless of their participation in the BCSPL.

    If "Metro Dad" truly feels there are players on his son's team that should be considered for the BCSA HPP then he should push his head coach or TD to recommend those players for HPP identification. This does not require those players to play BCSPL in order to be considered for HPP placement.

    I hope that clarifies the intention behind my earlier post.
     
  7. southsloper

    southsloper Member

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    I've scanned these documents tonite and interpret that a recommendation can be made by a "member club" TD or coach. I think that means a TD/coach from from a BCSPL member club. If that's true, clubs that have a BCSPL team, then a Metro players probably has exposure or access the club's TD or HPL coach.

    So, for a community club that doesn't have a BCSPL team, the aspiring player will need to request an evaluation by a BCSPL team. I assume the Metro player also needs to request an evaluation regardless of club affiliation. Am I wrong on that?

    And does a recommendation mean a direct path to a Provincial Team, or does it mean the aspiring Metro player now needs to navigate through the HPP program, which *hen *could* lead to assignment to a Provincial Team? I saw news articles about HPP participants going through at least 3 phases... Is there a cost involved with HPP? And is the player now removed from his Metro team/club?

    As I said, I only scanned the articles/documents, so I might be way off on this interpretation.
     
  8. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    It seems pretty clear from the info contained in the link you provided that the cards are heavily stacked against a Metro player making a BC provincial team and that everything within BC Soccer is geared to persuade any talented non BCSPL player to join this league. Recommendations have to come from a BCSPL coach or technical director, do they not? My son tried this league and we feel he did not get value for his money. I know many other parents who have had the same experience, though I cannot claim this to necessarily be the case of the majority.

    I may be going off on a a tangent here, but those of us parents with talented sons and daughters playing Metro believe that BC Soccer has set an arbitrary boundary between this league and SPL by charging ridiculous fees for SPL, establishing an elitist attitude that is not always justified in terms of performance (the fact my son's Metro team has decisively beaten a particular SPL team in two out of two encounters over the last year is one example) and by setting up a system of play where BCSPL teams, even after atrocious seasons in which they can barely win a game, cannot be relegated down to Metro and a Metro team, even after a stellar season, is not promoted to SPL. This situation is not in the best interest of the kids or of the sport in this province.
     
  9. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I do apologize, I may not be following you. Players have to be in BCSPL to be in PTP. TD's and HC's can "push" players at lower than BCSPL levels to be considered for PTP all they want - BCSA will say "has to be in BCSPL to be considered". It would be a waste of time for the TD and HC to "push". That's the issue. I know what the pathway description says on the BCSA site - coaches/TD's can submit a non-BCSPL players name for consideration. But the site clearly says they want every kid on PTP to be in BCSPL. Unless a player is of truly exceptional ability the response that player will receive at assessment is "you are good, please join BCSPL and we will evaluate you over the course of the season" even if that player is already good enough for PTP at that moment. Because, BCSA knows that if a player in MSL or D1 makes the PTP other kids will leave BCSPL and join lower levels which reduces the overall quality and integrity of their model. You don't need to read "between the lines" to know this is BCSA's position - they state it very clearly on their web site.

    Are there many MSL or D1 players good enough for PTP? Probably not. Very few I imagine. But, if the appropriate changes to BCSPL were made then more players of that ilk/ability would join that league that currently aren't.

    I am a big fan of BCSPL....in theory. It requires serious tweaking and that has to start with the cost of the program. I think to make it a more legit program you also have to move MSL and D1 to the same spring-summer-fall game/training schedule. D2 and down can remain fall-winter-spring. And probably D2 and down should all be noted as "rec." Many D1 teams are "rec" I understand, but the top performing teams of D1 have some fairly serious kids on them, and certainly the lower performing teams do too.
     
  10. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Hi metro dad - I have heard the exact same feedback from many. It's not value for money for all. Be it the quality of the league, the quality of the coaching, or the individual players ability to develop rapport and friendships with their teammates or a combo of the three - in other cases it's a time/money/travel issue. I have no doubt many really enjoy their time in the league or with their respective team. I have no doubt some have had wonderful experiences.

    I have also heard of a D1 team smashing an SPL team a couple times in training games. It's not unusual for lower level teams to be able to outperform SPL teams. Would they do so against the mid-table or top SPL teams? Probably not, but the fact it can be done against any of the so-called elite teams says something.

    I disagree with pro-rel though. BUT, I do agree that a team that gets smashed in BCSPL every week for a year or two should probably be re-worked. I don't know what the solution is though in a franchise-based system that SPL is.
     
  11. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    "TD's and HC's can "push" players at lower than BCSPL levels to be considered for PTP all they want - BCSA will say "has to be in BCSPL to be considered". It would be a waste of time for the TD and HC to push." Well said.
     
  12. Soccer-dad-NV

    Soccer-dad-NV Member

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    I think the LTPL model is a way to build from the ground up. The BCSPL model needs tweeking to allow a clear pathway. The cost/time/ value for money will always be restrictive.

    I'm a "rugby guy". The "Premier League" concept started in the mid 1990's for mens rugby. What has happened since is that clubs that failed to make "Premier" have slowly died off. There are fewer clubs. Less membership= fewer registration dollars and participants. In turn the Canadian mens team has gone from a world ranking of around 11th-18 or 19. Although there are many other factors for this as well. It may not be a fair comparison but the fact is that if the model decreases overall membership to focus on the top 1% then the future looks bleak for the long term. Organizations need to focus on all levels from the CSA down. Parents and kids will see where the bulk of their registration dollars are being focussed. If they see a lack of organization,fun etc. etc. they simply will not join again.

    Maybe dropping the Metro league is a start.?? More ideas are needed though.
     
  13. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the Metro league and I do not favour dropping it. There is an overlap of talent with the BCSPL, just like there is between Metro and Div 1. A top Metro team would find it more or less a waste of time to be pooled together with some of the worse Div 1 teams. But as you say, there should be a clearer, unhindered pathway -involving relagation/promotion between Metro and BCSPL.
     
  14. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Thanks. When read in that way, out of context it looks bad. Hopefully people read the entire post!
     
  15. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    You would not put "the worst" of Div 1 with the strong div 1 teams. The "worst" of Div 1 would be put in a new remodelled div 2 for example.

    Either MSL needs to be directly linked to BCSPL either in a pyramid or organizational structure of some kind, MSL has to join the divisions, or MSL has to be taken over and standardized on it's own akin to what NASL is to MLS. But it can't stay as it is.

    And yes, just like in professional football where the top of the Championship in England can beat the bottom of the premier you will have overlap. But those are professionals, not kids. So we can't look at it like pro-rel needs to happen for our kids.

    The pathway is actually very clear. I agree with the pathway. What I don't agree with is the cost to be in the top of the pathway to then be considered for the PTP or Whitecaps. That's the issue with the pathway. Outside of the pathway issues, regardless of what BCSA/BCSPL try to say, the league does not follow or ensure it's standards are being met, nor ensuring they are in fact the top of the top in all aspects of the game. There are some very talented players and coaches in MSL and Div 1. I don't suspect there are more than a very small handful of Div 2 players good enough for BCSPL, but I do suspect there are some talented coaches!

    What we need to eliminate is the roadblocks. The biggest one, and most easily corrected one, is the cost right now for the MSL and BCSPL teams. Divisions are affordable for almost everyone but there will always be exceptions of course, thus you have programs like KidsSport. The next roadblock is travel time and time commitment - but that is not something really within the control of BCSA because I do agree with where the BCSPL teams are located to a degree. Okanagan and Van Island need to be in the league. But, for whatever reason they struggle massively. Fraser Valley also has a history of struggle, and those issues are generally caused due to travel time, and lack of quality coaching (from the feedback I've received from many, in many different age groups), and the lack of ensuring certain standards are met.
     
  16. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    BCPL coach,s very rarely go to watch Metro or Div 1 games either cus they don,t have time or simply cus they can,t be bothered . There is no way any of these TD,s or BCPL coach,s will recommend a non BCPL player .
     
  17. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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  18. Metro Dad

    Metro Dad Member

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    Yes, I agree with you. It doesn't really matter what is written on paper because we all know that Metro players face a road block to being considered for a BC Provincial team, with good players occasionally overlooked as a result. Case in point - my son's U15 Metro team yesterday played an exhibition against one of the best SPL teams and lost 1-0 on a penalty, and that was with two gold players helping out.
     
  19. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    don't read too much into exhibition games. i remember losing a pre-season exhibition 6-0, then beating that same team less than a month later in the opening league game. it happens.

    but, i totally get your point, and agree. on paper there is a path for non-BCSPL players to get reviewed for the PTP.....I'd like to know how many non-BCSPL players are getting called out for more than one trial at the PTP program without being told after the first one "please join BCSPL"
     
  20. Tom Duley

    Tom Duley Member

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    Our entire infrastructure is garbage in this sport. We have several people from the same clique involved in making most soccer related decisions, its the same with Soccer Canada, starting from my old friend Vic Montagliani all the way down through BC Soccer and the WhiteCaps...all filled with ex Columbus connections, friends and friends of friends.

    Your son wouldn't be overlooked in a Soccer Nation, because in those country's, they have respect for talent and will do everything possible to assist that kid and ensure he remains part of a professional system, He we have a bunch of people that try to behave professionally and are clearly at the 3rd world level in this sport.

    I suggest you don't worry so much about the politics, neither you nor I will ever change this crappy system we have in this country, its not hockey...its soccer!
     
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