Four District Youth Soccer 2017/18

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by Total -Base, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. Fil66

    Fil66 Member

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    Totally disagree with this, have know idea who you are and who you know but in my kids age group, the last three years the so called smaller clubs you mentioned consistently finished in the top three/four in their divisions, to the point that both South Burnaby and Wesburn were both at the provincials last year with Wesburn winning. As far as development goes, 4 Wesburn kids from that team are playing on this years BDSM and one is playing for Vancouver Metro so how does dropping them to Silver help? Even with losing that many kids, there is enough talented kids to come up and fill those spots on the Wesburn team to the point that they're still at the top of their divisions with Cliff and South Burnaby not far behind. Can't speak for the other divisions but there are many teams teams from the so called smaller clubs consistently beating the bigger clubs like Van U, Coquitlam, etc.
     
  2. rich

    rich Active Member

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    I think the size of the club should be irrelevant. Sometimes you get a group of kids at an age group that are either very strong, or very weak. It's all about putting players and teams into the best enviorment for their development. That is where there needs to be a much better communication pathway between leagues and the individual clubs and TDs.
     
  3. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Agreed.
     
  4. Total -Base

    Total -Base Member

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    Fill66 that was last year with out addition of three clubs from district five. Ask around how south Burnaby gold one team is doing this year. One team has gone down to lower level to win and have fun , that team has two smart coaches. Gold one team has more than sixty seventy percent of the lost games coach is going nuts on kids to try to win it's just not there. As far as ICSF most of the kids are out of district when it comes to U 13, with 5 out of district rule-their program goes to lower level. Just look where they stand from U13 to U18 Killarney the same. Cliff sends few coaches to Wesburn and South to get to know who the better players are. Both TD is South and Wesburn are clueless to Cliffs ability. Some kids move and improve Cliff program when those coaches move back to Cliff. Guys we must think of kids forget all HPL BS and MS BS and develop kids to be able to step up in future.
    There is four Surrey Metro select clubs ho can easy beat HP team from Mauntain. Reason is tons of kids do not have money to pay to play in HPL net result gold kids end up on HLP teams level of soccer drops. All you have to do is to go to four star US Tournament with your gold team and you will see where you stand. Beating small clubs with less select kids proves nothing and it does nothing for development of better players in fact they drop in level of soccer. Most talented kid plays for Poco gold one U12 and second best is a kid from VAFC kid called Jake U12 G2. Both high pace and foot skill. Lots of kids have skill but lack in pace they will be tier two players period.
    ICSF has Burnaby kid called Jake with total soccer skill plays on U12 gold 2 team. Wesburn has a Spanish last name kid in the middle of the Park with fantastic soccer ability. Kid has pace and a shot of the grown up.
    Across the line in US div one schools look for top pace players nothing less. We can do all that you guys thinc localy but with out testing what we can do across the line really means nothing. nine out of ten games our seniors play them we get kicked in the butt. It all starts in youth program you like it or not. What North Van and VAFC and VUFC did shows on the field. Kids have more pace kids have more foot skill. On small clubs you have four five kids equal rest lag, those kids must play at the level where they will develop.
     
  5. LosBlancos

    LosBlancos Member

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    When i go through the Ontario Soccer website and their pathways/vision, does their program seem way ahead of BCs? It certainly seems that their is more opportunity to develop further with more choices? Having a club league and academy league, the whole setup of the OPDL compared to BCSPL leading into League 1 at 18. Kinda speechless after going through their website and our BC Soccer website.
     
  6. Fil66

    Fil66 Member

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    I agree, not all divisions at the smaller clubs are the same but by your logic if last years u14 gold1 teams were playing at a silver level, how much fun would that really be? Wesburn lost one game all year and beat Metro teams at the Surrey Mayors Cup, South Burnaby lost only a couple and both beat teams from district 5 to get to the Coastal Cup final, including the previous years provincial runner up. If they would have only played smaller club teams only, scores would have been in double digits every game and how are you developing players like that? as it was, both those teams were beating bigger club teams like Van U and Richmond by big margins.
    I agree, playing in the US would be a real eye opener but disagree completely with the smaller clubs being dropped to a lower tier because they are smaller clubs.

    BC Soccer is broken, no doubt in my mind. Every time my kid tries out for Metro I cringe at the tryout process and the fact you never see any metro/hpl coaches at any games scouting players just baffles me. It is what it is, the way it's setup right now, who knows if it will ever change.
     
  7. Total -Base

    Total -Base Member

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    LosBlancos you do not want to have Academy control of the kids. If you do you know whats next. Kids have to be left to club soccer. That's the place for development. The only thing we don't have vs Ontario is number of players. Ontario has three to four time more soccer players than BC. BC Soccer does a good job with what they have. The only mistake is giving in to HPL to get rid of Metro selects. And it is coming as soon as next year. Metro Selects will be part of Costal Soccer top tier, gold will drop to tier two silver to tier three. In my opinion a positive move by the clubs. HPL will be left for kids with money and very little talent. Only one thing BC Coastal kids in tier one must have a chance to try out for BC Provincial teams and for Canadian youth tryouts at U15. HPL guys together with two guys from BC soccer are trying to stop the kids from trying out pawing a spot for connected kids some with very little soccer ability.
    Old boys club from Cliff should be looked in to see why all good players don't have the tryouts. The way it is now Old New York reserve keeper is stopping kids from tryouts. If kids don't go to their camps and pay no play on select program no hope to try out at higher level. All that hog wash has to be thrown out including a guy from BC Soccer that supports the old Keepers program.
    I love to see local clubs getting back Metro soccer it will improve development and at the same time help parents will pay less to play soccer. What ever kids go to soccer schools it has to be left alone. Those guys are making living coaching skills. Good but never control to BC Soccer, no league can be given to them. In my opinion Canadian Soccer must have total control of Canadian Soccer. The way it is now each kid pays fee of fifteen dollars to Canadian soccer fund yet Provinces control the head guys. Soccer will never get to World levels with out head body control. Thirteen guys reps of 10 Provinces and three Territories are all over the place as our top program is now. Every household must have some one to keep it going straight. Most important part must be done this spring change it to Coastal program and shot it for ten years and see how it does. BC Program must take top kids from Coastal program and top kids from HLP to US tournaments and show case our kids. If we send twenty guys to US College top tierr we will have six seven guys ready for National program. If we don't we will have what we have loss after loss to US, Mexico and Costa down south. Net result no chance to get to World seen.
    I wish I cold have a chance to get rid of HPL and only run Club soccer. In summer months select best kids and go to US five star Tournaments and to Ontario top Tournament. The only way forward. Rest is all waste of money.
     
  8. Total -Base

    Total -Base Member

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    Bit more info on U12 Gold level soccer. Went to watch U12 gold teams play at Jericho just to see what level kids are at that age. There is a team in VUFC Riot U12 playing under gold two west group. Note all the kids were selected for gold one. Yet they put them in Gold two to win a all costs. All the kids will be overlooked for HPL level what politics in that area. Ref in today's game was a young man sixteen seventeen years of age. Four times he called the keeper from one team coming outside of the box to kick the ball. Each time keeper though the ball in the air and then kicked not once as free kick. Young man needs to be sat down and thought what he did wrong. By you 12 refs should know rules of the game for most he was lost. Team does not need his help yet he gave it for free to a home team.
    If VUFC goes to tournaments under Gold two level guys running the tournament need to throw them out. Starting cheating in U12 ends up bigger cheating in higher age groups.
    Head coordinator of U12 group needs to change this for development of youth as parents pay to play. Must be more fair help development of the kids.
     
  9. Total -Base

    Total -Base Member

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    IF you guys would like to see small club playing mega club soccer come to field three Burnaby 8 rinks fields 8:30 and check it out. Ask your self if Fonseca and his reps from BC Soccer do kids justice.
    We all know that team needs a gold coach not a jolly muph, but at the same time child development goes to hell with guys like that running the child development.
    You will see gold one team from North Van playing in gold two to sell their kids to upper levels of soccer. No fault to North Van coach or Manager. This's what goes on with out their control. Game should be taped and sent to FIFA guys to let them know that we need help big times.
     
  10. jmoulins

    jmoulins Member

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    I've been coaching gold teams in Vancouver for six seasons. I've never had an HPL or metro coach identify himself or ask about any of our players. I have, on several occasions, fielded calls from parents of players who were offered places on HPL and metro clubs when they clearly didn't play at that level.
     
  11. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I think most gold coaches will have the same experience. That coaches don't scout, and recruit, is negligence on their part (and their club).
     
  12. Total -Base

    Total -Base Member

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    TKBC I clearly agree with your post. Them teams are pr-selected, try outs are just cover ups. MSSL or new Coastal select program on the other side is for players to try and make it. In my opinion a better place for kids to develop.
    It's huge jump from level to level most parents wish for phone call. It's best to let the kid find a level where he or she will develop.
    In my opinion the best place for skill improvement is gold soccer Or level two in New Coastal program. No player should go up unless they have spot for a year. In HPL players get cut like you have never seen. One big joke heading in total destruction of local soccer.
    Kids need more freedom to develop, most need in class teaching to understand the soccer. Better yet coaches need better head coaches to teach kids more and teach parents what to look out for. I have watched some local coaching programs and must say that is the biggest reason of our down fall, and not parent coaches as most put the blame on. Club like New West has few kids jet they always produce good players. So it is not these mega clubs scooping kids who produce top talent as you can see Caps don't want nothing to do with them.
    Most local soccer schools are based on making money, they use better kids to develop pure kids but better kids learn zero from that.
    Stick to gold develop each player on your team you will be the coach kids will always remember.
     
  13. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Gold will not develop players of a high skill level - their are exceptions as with anything. The pace and pressure is not high enough. zero space + zero time = skill. Gold will develop lesser kids as they become more comfortable on the ball, and will help late bloomers thrive. But the top 1% need to be in the same top league together. I don't agree with aspects of BCSPL, but I do agree it should be maintained as the top tier with just 8 teams.

    Leagues don't develop players. Let's be clear about that. BCSPL, nor gold nor any other league develops players. 3-4.5 hours a week with your team plus a game will help, but not develop a player. True development happens in the park on your own time.
     
  14. jmoulins

    jmoulins Member

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    I agree with half of this. 13,14 year olds are way better off playing gold level with their friends than sitting on the end of a bench and/or having the fun and creativity drilled out of them on an “elite” soccer team. It’s beyond ridiculous that 13 year olds are made to sign contracts barring them from playing other sports. EA and Metro soccer, as they exist, are all about findind parents willing to pay their stupid fees.
     
  15. southsloper

    southsloper Member

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    Is that true i.e. "made to sign contracts barring them from playing other sports."?

    I know of kids playing HPL who also play box lacrosse & ice hockey... HPL usually trumps the other sports when there is a conflict though...

     
  16. jmoulins

    jmoulins Member

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    I
    At least two kids I’ve coached have signed agreements that they wouldn’t play other sports, including school sports. One of those kids had to quit playing 6 aside spring soccer with his friends when his HPL coaches found out.
    I’ve also talked to angry Metro parents who’ve paid hefty “optional” summer travel team fees for teams that never left the lower mainland.

    I’ve yet to see an HPL player who also plays winter hockey. Can’t imagine how you’d manage. Some of the most talented soccer players I’ve coached have been in a spring 6 aside league, kids who don’t play club soccer because it conflicts with hockey.
     
  17. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    re: the "travel team" - When they signed up for this optional team did they not bother to ask what exactly they were signing up for?

    Keep in mind the fees for these kind of teams don't even cover the travel portion anyway - so if they did leave lower mainland it would be even more money (some clubs may organize the fees into the registration).

    It's always optional. No one can make your kid sign up for anything.
     
  18. jmoulins

    jmoulins Member

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    Yep, they asked and were told there would be tournaments up and down the coast. The travel team fee was higher than the registration fee, and the parents felt pressured to pay up, lest their kid fall behind his teammates.

    One of these kids is now 14 years old, has quit club soccer completely, and shines on his high school team, playing with and against metro level players.
     
  19. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Parents can only feel pressured if they put that pressure on themselves.

    If the kid quit at 14 because a tournament/travel team didn't live up to their (or their parents) expectations I will, with all due respect, suggest there are bigger issues at play. Why do I say this? Because unless this kid lives in a isolated community (ie, Chilliwack or Abby where the nearest options are minimum 20-30 minute drive one-way), they can definitely find another team to play for that can offer an environment they will find more in tune with their needs.

    Is the sporting environment too structured? Yes, I think it is. Does this equate to some kids and parents feeling pressure? Yes, I am sure it does. Every kid needs a different path. Some thrive in this, some don't. Some need to play only at school, others need something else. Some play only at academies, and some only at parks.
     
  20. Total -Base

    Total -Base Member

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    TKBC you are pointing good points to rest of the members. HPL or any level is for kids that want it. No parent can push the kid or he or she will quit. No kid likes to go to five star tournament where the get clocked each game. I blame coaches for their BS. If you look at Whitecaps second team it showed that kids were not ready for men's game. Team is gone ask your self why. BS is BS and it catches with you. Kids need solid steady ground to develop in, with skill improvement number one object. HPL clubs and Select clubs are not ready for five star tournaments in US, three star yes. We are behind in strength and game pace. Game pace is not running and hogging a bull but fast ball movement full out.
    Academie coaches use kids to make money they forget to teach defence. Most only teach ball movement and for most never as two touch. D par of our game is fifty percent behind US kids. Academies need to improve in that area. Making friends and making money is OK but net product is not good enough.
     

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