Cup play tie breakers.

Discussion in 'Youth Leagues & Cups' started by easoccer, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    First and foremost I feel that in a round robin tournameny that W/L record should be the tie breaker if teams have the same amount of points.

    For example:

    3-1-1 should outweigh 2-2-1. Head to head should only factor in if both teams have identical records.

    There are several instances this year where a team lost in the shootout to the 2-2-1 team and are not making the finals with the better record.

    Imho this isnt right.
     
  2. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    I imagine no matter what tie-breaker the league goes by someone will be upset or disappointed.

    For me, head to head is always the best tie-breaker in youth soccer. If you go by wins, goal difference, goals scored, or goals conceded you'll find too many teams "playing to win" if you know what I mean.
     
  3. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    Head to head is fine but shootout is technically a tie. Even the tables show the 1st and 3rd place teams going into the finals.

    Last year our team was tied with the other top team at 11-1, but we beat them, and still finished second due to goal differential i guess. I honestly feel George gives preference to tri city teams in the standings. Lol.
     
  4. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Probably a coin flip or drawing random from a hat, to be honest. But if you beat them you should have been ahead of them in the standings. But, if just one person is doing the standings and recording etc it probably was just a mistake! Lots of leagues to track and update. Every year there is a mistake in the standings. Last year we won every game, they didn't record the last game, they recorded the scores of two games wrong.....it happens.
     
  5. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    I think the way the tables are laid out, and the actual tie breakers as written in the rules, use different methodology and only come in to play when disputed or brought to the leagues attention.
     
  6. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Yes, I imagine if a team was listed as 3rd, but level on points with 2nd, and actually won the first tie breaker (or 2nd, whatever the case may be) then you would notify your club registrar/president, who notifies the league etc. The guy who writes the league tables just writes the league tables, you know?
     
  7. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    George not only writes the software, but also maintains the tables. There are more politics involved and my comment of him giving preference was in jest. But thats a topic for another day.
     
  8. indo_soccer

    indo_soccer Member

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    I need some expert opinion here with regards U16 Boys Div1 Championship tie-breaker. Both CCB and NCU have the exact same W/T/L (3-2-0) record. According to the tie-breaker rules CCB has following advantages...

    1st tie-breaker rule (head-to-head) - CCB beat NCU in penalty shootout.
    2nd tie-breaker rule (Goals Against) - CCB has less then NCU
    3rd tie-breker rule (Goal Differential) - CCB beats NCU on this as well

    So after all this, I don't understand why the standing table still shows NCU in 1st and CCB in 2nd?

    Reason I'm asking is because I believe the first place team qualifies for the coastal cup... is that not correct?

    Any input would be greatly appreciated... Maybe the Admin can shed some light?

    Thank you
     
  9. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    See. This is my point exactly.

    You should be 1st in your group and the home team in the finals. I have found the teams from tri city meadows are usually given preference and it seems shady to me.

    I would have your club rep protest and have that changed.

    Also i think the winner of this game will get that spot because then you would truly be 1st.

    Nestor has done a really good job with that team.
     
  10. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    @indo_soccer

    I don't have any say or control how the standings are presented but knowing what I know, the standings you see do not take any of the official tiebreaker info into consideration. It's a definite short-coming of the program all the local leagues are committed to IMO (along with other various short-comings).
     
  11. easoccer

    easoccer Established Member

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    In experience, and having being subjected to it myself in the past, it seems that the standings are done at the whim of the person who maintains them. Logic has no place. Lol.
     
  12. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    BTW, looking around a bit closer...
    There is a final to be played between the top 2 teams it looks like for ALL 5DL Championship Series play.
     
  13. TKBC

    TKBC Established Member

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    Absolutely. There is some remarks out there that the winner or both finalists in Group A get to enter coastal cup as wildcard. BUT, I saw in one case a league winner failed to win their district cup, and failed to win the Group A - they were given the wild card spot. And I agree with that - the team that wins the league (12-14 games typically) should get the wildcard spot if they fail to win their district cup.

    I am not sure how exactly the wild cards are picked but from what I've observed it's typically one of the two finalists in Group A - typically those teams are also the strongest in their district. So I hope the rules for how a wildcard is awarded is clear as day.
     
  14. indo_soccer

    indo_soccer Member

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    Thank you everyone for your feedback... One more thing...

    I don't believe the final match has anything to do with the standings. In my understading (from the rules posted), it's the first place team once everyone has played each other in the playoffs.

    Let's say if the 1st and 2nd place teams were not tied in points, they still play the upcoming championship match. And regarless of who wins the championship game; the team with the most point at the end of the playoffs would go on to coastal cup.
     
  15. CanadianSpur

    CanadianSpur Member

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    Firstly, I assume you are talking about group A in your age group.

    Winning the league championship does not automatically grant a spot in coastal cup.

    " Boys B Cup: The Mainland teams in the "Round of 16" will be made up of the nine district champions plus three ‘wild cards’ to be determined at their discretion by the 4 District and 5 District leagues/districts. The two Island district champions enter at the Quarter-Finals round."

    "Girls B Cup: The Mainland "Round of 16" teams will be made up of the eight district champions plus four ‘wild
    cards’ to be determined by the BC Coastal Girls League. The two Island district champions enter at the Quarter-Finals round."

    Usually the winner of 5district league group A is invited is they are not already a district champion, but I'm not entirely sure how the wild card teams are chosen as 4district leagues don't run the same as 5district.
     
  16. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    Looking at the schedule for the Coastal Cup in the U16 age bracket, it appears NCU has been slotted in with 5 district having 1 more team to 'send' as a wildcard:

    BC Coastal Boys B Cup

    What are considered District Champions here? Regular season winners or Championship winners?

    In terms of Wildcards allotted to 4DL & 5DL, as a 'group', these 2 districts appear to get 3 wildcards per age group broken down as:

    U13: 4DL 1; 5DL 2
    U14: 4DL 2; 5DL 1
    U15: 4DL 1; 5DL 2
    U16: 4DL 2; 5DL 1
    U17: 4DL 1; 5DL 2
    U18: 4DL 2; 5DL 1

    4 District has these 'rules' for sending teams to the Coastal B Cup:

    Wild cards & tiebreaking methodology: In the age groups where 4-District has a wild card spot (1 each at U-13, U-15, U-17 and 2 each in U-14, U-16 and U-18), those spots will be given to the teams that had the highest standing in the league (descending from Gold 1 through: G1, G2, G3, S1, S2, etc.), no matter with which District they are registered or when they were eliminated from their District B Cup playdowns.
     
  17. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    Nestor is a good guy and has built that team up well.
    Looking at the standings his CCB Inter team should be in 1st place due to a better goal difference than NCU.

    1 NCU Strikers 5 3 2 0 14 6 8 -- 12
    2 CCB Inter 5 3 2 0 12 2 10 -- 12
     
  18. WTF

    WTF Active Member

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    • 1st place team from the U14, U16 and U18 League Championship Round Robin qualify for Coastal Cup.
    There,s alot at stake here and the standings have to be adjusted !
     
  19. hervb

    hervb Member

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    no adjustment required. The winner of the group is not based on the final standings of the round robin, but on the final game of 1st VS 2nd being played this upcoming saturday. Only change the error in formatting has made is home and away team which doesnt change the location of game (games locations were predetermined prior to round robin play). Suppose the only difference would be who gets to call the coin toss.
     
  20. Admin

    Admin Administrator

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    If that's the case, why would NCU already be given a spot in the Coastal Cup?

    Ironically, they are slotted to play the 5DL Wildcard team in the round of 16... so if they lose this final, do they play CCB again in the round of 16? If they win, who do they play?
     

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